Mr. Pizza's Hardy Boys Forum

Hardy Boys Casefiles Discussion => Hardy Boys Casefiles => Topic started by: SkyWarp on July 06, 2012, 11:09:40 AM

Title: What do you want to know?
Post by: SkyWarp on July 06, 2012, 11:09:40 AM
What is the top one or two things that you don't know or can't remember about the casefile stories that you wish you knew?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: SDLagent on July 06, 2012, 05:19:51 PM
hm. Good question. I'll have to think about this.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on August 02, 2012, 04:10:08 PM
Is Iola Morton still alive?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Sleuth on August 02, 2012, 06:12:59 PM
Quote from: MacGyver on August 02, 2012, 04:10:08 PM
Is Iola Morton still alive?

I know the answer to this one! :) Thankfully, yes. Iola is alive. 8) :) They didn't see her get in the car, no body was found - and there is the ever present proof with the Hardy Boys Mystery Stories that Iola is alive, which ran longer than the Casefiles, into the 21st century. 8) If I thought she had actually been killed in the Casefiles I wouldn't be interested in reading another Casefile, so I'm really glad I know Iola is alive. 8) And there is always the fact Joe knows she's alive. 8)
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on August 03, 2012, 08:56:45 AM
Well, yes- true. But The Hardy Boys Mystery Stories is the original canon (from 1-190) so, yeah- Iola's always been alive there.
Iola Morton was definitely a recurring theme throughout the Casefiles universe books though- it would be interesting in there had ever been a definitive book written to address her "death" in Dead on Target- but of course, that's been addressed via fanfiction.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Judah-Ben-Hur on May 04, 2013, 07:04:37 AM
Which were the best volumes?
Which to avoid?
Were there ever any references to Nancy Drew (her series mentioned HB, so maybe they returned the favor)?
Was their any continuity as the series progressed?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 04, 2013, 06:51:25 PM
If you haven't read The Hardy Boys Casefiles before, I'd say for the first two questions- read them all and decide for yourself. ;)
I love them all. :) 8)
I don't recall any Nancy Drew references in the books.  Where did The Nancy Drew Files refer to The Hardy Boys?
And yes, there is definitely a good continuity with this series, though for the most part the books can all stand on their own. (Outside of the two official trilogies, of course.)
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Judah-Ben-Hur on May 04, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
I've read them here and there, but I've not exactly keep up with them as I have with the Original & Digest series.
I forget which volume but one ND file has a character tell Nancy he loved to read the Hardy Boys books, and she replies that she's at least read one (an odd reference I thought since the series shares the same continuity with the Super Mysteries) I believe it's been mentioned before on this forum but where I can't remember...
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Bigfootman on May 04, 2013, 08:44:55 PM
Quote from: Judah-Ben-Hur on May 04, 2013, 07:16:48 PM
I've read them here and there, but I've not exactly keep up with them as I have with the Original & Digest series.
I forget which volume but one ND file has a character tell Nancy he loved to read the Hardy Boys books, and she replies that she's at least read one (an odd reference I thought since the series shares the same continuity with the Super Mysteries) I believe it's been mentioned before on this forum but where I can't remember...
The book is called "Smile and Say Murder".
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Judah-Ben-Hur on May 04, 2013, 09:34:33 PM
thanks! ;D
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 05, 2013, 06:14:34 AM
Perhaps Oliver Richards wrote that book series about The Hardy Boys after all! :D ;D
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Judah-Ben-Hur on May 06, 2013, 07:35:12 PM
Do Frank and Joe ever own/use a gun? Have they ever been shown in an illustration or cover with one?
Desert Phantom (#84 Digest) has Joe with a Machine Gun, but that's my only memory of them using one (which surely can't be the only one).
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 06, 2013, 09:44:42 PM
I don't think the Hardy Boys are ever said to own a gun- at least not that I recall. But they've certainly used them a number of times in the Casefiles, though more to knock people out with (brandishing a rifle like a club, etc.) or perhaps just to train a gun on a criminal to keep them at bay. I don't recall them ever shooting anyone. I do guns and rifles show up on the Casefiles covers a couple of times- Frank has one held to his head on the cover of Thick as Thieves. An older dude aims a rifle at Frank and Joe on Deadfall's cover. A criminal holds a machine gun on the cover of Wrong Side of the Law. Bikers hold machine guns on Virtual Villiany's cover- but it's a virtual reality program. An apparent ghost of an Assassin holds a machine gun on Dead of Night's cover. Tom Swift fires a gun of some sort on the cover of Time Bomb- #1 in A Hardy Boys and Tom Swift Ultra Thriller series. A guy holds a gun on Frank and Joe on the cover of Uncivil War. Two guys are firing guns at Frank and Joe on the cover of Foul Play. Two guys have machine guns on Frank and Joe on the cover of Highway Robbery. Frank and Joe are surrounded by soldiers with guns on the cover of Danger Zone. An apparent ghost trains a gun on Frank, Joe and Callie on the cover of The Dead Season. A guy is shooting a rifle at Frank and Joe on the cover of Blood Money. A guy is firing a gun at The Hardy Boys on the cover of Double Exposure. Guys have guns aimedat The Hardys on the cover of Witness to Murder. A guy is firing a gun at Frank and Joe on the cover of The Number File. A gun is trained at Frank and Joe and they're in the Line of Fire on the cover of the book by the same name. Two guys have machine guns at the ready on the cover of Hostages of Hate.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 06, 2013, 10:12:18 PM
It's hard to tell, but it looks like a shadowy figure on the cover of See No Evil may have a gun. A guy on the cover of Deathgame has a machine gun. A guy is firing a gun at Frank and Joe on the cover of Cult of Crime. And guys are firing machine guns at Frank and Joe and Gina on the cover of Survival Run. I think that's it for the Casefiles.
   For the Digests, a guy looks like he's pulling a gun out of his suit jacket on the cover of Eye on Crime. A guy on a snowmobile is firing a gun at Frank and Joe on the cover of Danger in the Extreme. The alien Frank and Joe are fighting on the cover of Danger in the Fourth Dimension has a gun of some sort in the holster on his side. An alien-looking dude is firing a gun of some sort at another dude on the cover of The Secret of Sigma Seven. A guy looks like he could be pulling out a gun from his jacket on the cover of Attack of the Video Villians, but I think he's actually stealing a video game. By the way, the later cover for Revenge of the Desert Phantom does not show Joe manning the machine gun on the jeep- in fact, it doesn't show a gun at all. A guy holds a gun that Frank is trying to kick out of his hands on the original Minstrel cover of The Vanishing Thieves.
I think that may be it for the Digests.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 06, 2013, 10:49:44 PM
There do not seem to be any depictions of guns on the covers of the Nancy Drew & Hardy Boys Supermystery series- either the 1988 series or the 2007 series. For the graphic novels, Joe and Frank appear to be in the scope sights of a rifle on the cover of Board to Death. A guy is holding a rifle on Joe on the cover of the first issue of the comic book based on The Hardy Boys cartoon that ran from 1969-1971. The comic book is called The Hardy Boys on the Beat!. On the cover of issue 3, a shadowy rider on a horse points a gun into the sky. Also, on the Armada printing of The Ghost at Skeleton Rock (the 1984. One), a guy is firing a machine gun at Frank and Joe. On the back cover of #2 in the graphic novels, Identity Theft, a girl is holding a gun on Frank and Joe and another girl. On the back cover of The Opposite Numbers, a guy holds a gun on Frank and Joe. On the back cover of A Hardy Day's Night, Joe holds a gun. The Noir sisters hold rifles of some sort on the back cover of Live Free, Die Hardy!. As near as I can tell, there are no depictions of guns on any of the Undercover Brothers books. And there are no depictions of any of the Adventures covers thus far. And I'm pretty sure there are no guns depicted on any of The Clues Brothers books or the Secret Files books.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 06, 2013, 10:52:08 PM
I don't think any of The Hardy Boys one-off spinoff books (Super Sleuths! Books, Camp Fire Stories or Ghost Stories, etc.) have any depictions of guns on the covers. And it doesn't look like any of the original text or revised original 58 books do either. However, the Collins hardback printing of The Secret of the Caves has an old dude holding a rifle on Frank and Joe. The Armada paperback printing of this book (the one from the early '80s) has him actually firing it at Frank and Joe. The 1980s Armada paperback printing of Trapped at Sea has Frank and a bad dude struggling for control of a gun on the cover.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on May 07, 2013, 04:25:53 AM
The Hardy's do own guns, and as I remember, Fenton even gave the boys guns for Christmas.  And Frank did fire a rifle at a chicken thief in the 1928 "Mystery Of Cabin Island".
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 07, 2013, 07:48:14 AM
I have a feeling this bit about Frank and Joe owning guns was probably only in the original text. Do you recall if it's mentioned in the revised text as well?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on May 08, 2013, 07:33:54 PM
In the revised text Fenton gives them a camera attachment that looks like a "gun stock". 

The cover for the Revised Footprints Under The Window has a number of guys wearing ammo clips.

If you check out the cover for The Vanishing Thieves (1987) has a guy holding a gun.  There's a gun on Revenge Of The Desert Phantom.

But in The Secret of The Empty Page from the Detective Handbook (Revised Edition), the boys come across a Chief Collig's nephew who has been shot dead while still clutching a revolver, and Frank actually stands next to the suspect, who has a .45 caliber gun on him.  Plus Chief Collig fires his gun in the story.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on May 09, 2013, 08:07:15 AM
Okay- I forgot about that story from the Detective Handbook- good point.
     And I did notice the ammo clips on the Footprints Under the Window cover- obviously one of those guys must have had a gun to use that ammo with. I tried to make a list of every Hardy Boys cover where I noticed a gun of some sort earlier in this thread- there were a few covers where I didn't necessarily see a gun, but I did see ammo clips. This was one cover in that category. Another one would be #25 in The Hardy Boys Casefiles, The Borderline Case.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: SkyWarp on October 29, 2013, 11:25:52 PM
Casefiles #15, Page 22
Talks about both Hardy Boys as being expert marksman, but that they both promised their father that they would not carry a gun.  This doesn't say whether they own one or not though. 
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on October 30, 2013, 06:21:38 AM
Makes sense, since Fenton has his own gun and ammo in the house (since Fenton pulls out the gun in "Time Bomb" in the basement).
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 21, 2015, 07:33:10 AM
Why was Russia/USSR brought up so much in the Casefiles? It's the only series to do so. The UB and the Adventures series never really mentions it.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: SkyWarp on April 21, 2015, 04:46:12 PM
Quote from: Katie on April 21, 2015, 07:33:10 AM
Why was Russia/USSR brought up so much in the Casefiles? It's the only series to do so. The UB and the Adventures series never really mentions it.

It has to do with when the series were published as well as their target audiences.  The Casefiles came out during the "end" of the "Cold War".  The UB and Adv series have been published in the past few years and are also targeted toward a younger crowd.  No one cares about Russia anymore (well, until maybe this past year) let alone the younger crowd they are targeting.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 21, 2015, 05:09:46 PM
Quote from: SkyWarp on April 21, 2015, 04:46:12 PM
It has to do with when the series were published as well as their target audiences.  The Casefiles came out during the "end" of the "Cold War".  The UB and Adv series have been published in the past few years and are also targeted toward a younger crowd.  No one cares about Russia anymore (well, until maybe this past year) let alone the younger crowd they are targeting.

What was so special about the year 1987? Was that the end of the Cold War?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on April 22, 2015, 07:02:32 AM
The Cold War officially ended in 1991 with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification of East and West Germany, and the division of the USSR into Russia and the many Balkan states that now exist.  Countries like Afghanistan and the Czech Republic were part of the Soviet Union.  Basically the Cold War was the last "war" between the last two Super Powers in the world.  But with the fall of the Soviet Union, the US was left as the only Super Power in the world.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 22, 2015, 08:42:45 AM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 22, 2015, 07:02:32 AM
The Cold War officially ended in 1991 with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the reunification of East and West Germany, and the division of the USSR into Russia and the many Balkan states that now exist.  Countries like Afghanistan and the Czech Republic were part of the Soviet Union.  Basically the Cold War was the last "war" between the last two Super Powers in the world.  But with the fall of the Soviet Union, the US was left as the only Super Power in the world.

Guess that's why the books are written like they're dealing with "fall out" in a sense?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 23, 2015, 12:12:34 AM
Yes- The Hardy Boys Casefiles generally attempted to stay current with the times. And you have to keep in mind that these books were published from 1987 to 1998. So some of the early books definitely deal with Cold War issues. And to clarify, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9, 1989, but the USSR did not officially dissolve until 1991.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 23, 2015, 10:27:02 AM
Quote from: MacGyver on April 23, 2015, 12:12:34 AM
Yes- The Hardy Boys Casefiles generally attempted to stay current with the times. And you have to keep in mind that these books were published from 1987 to 1998. So some of the early books definitely deal with Cold War issues. And to clarify, the Berlin Wall came down on November 9, 1989, but the USSR did not officially dissolve until 1991.

They seem more adult than the UB's in what they deal with. Wish they could make a HB series like it.




Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on April 23, 2015, 06:37:58 PM
The Casefiles were aimed at the Grade 7 and higher reading level, where as the UB's and Adventure series were aimed at Grade 3 to 6 reading level.  The Original series never had reading levels given to it till the 1980's when Minstrel took over, but even then Minstrel only had the rights from Night Of The Werewolf onward.  But with the Minstrel copies of the Stratemeyer books (up to The Swamp Monster) if you look on the back of the books you can see that the reading level was, for the majority, between a Grade 5.9 and 9.1 level (and reading grade goes by school grade, so at 5.9 you would basically be expecting someone just entering Grade 6 to be able to understand the book).   
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 23, 2015, 08:45:16 PM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 23, 2015, 06:37:58 PM
The Casefiles were aimed at the Grade 7 and higher reading level, where as the UB's and Adventure series were aimed at Grade 3 to 6 reading level.  The Original series never had reading levels given to it till the 1980's when Minstrel took over, but even then Minstrel only had the rights from Night Of The Werewolf onward.  But with the Minstrel copies of the Stratemeyer books (up to The Swamp Monster) if you look on the back of the books you can see that the reading level was, for the majority, between a Grade 5.9 and 9.1 level (and reading grade goes by school grade, so at 5.9 you would basically be expecting someone just entering Grade 6 to be able to understand the book).   

Yeah, wish I could get the first casefile, Dead on Target, before they changed it.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 23, 2015, 10:14:01 PM
Do you mean a first edition? I have seen some first (or at least early) editions of the first few Hardy Boys Casefiles float around through thrift stores and such at times (including Dead on Target.)
And as tomswift2002 was saying, keep in mind that the Casefiles was strictly aimed at teenagers, whereas all the other Hardy Boys series have been aimed at the elementary school age kids.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 24, 2015, 07:16:21 AM
Quote from: MacGyver on April 23, 2015, 10:14:01 PM
Do you mean a first edition? I have seen some first (or at least early) editions of the first few Hardy Boys Casefiles float around through thrift stores and such at times (including Dead on Target.)
And as tomswift2002 was saying, keep in mind that the Casefiles was strictly aimed at teenagers, whereas all the other Hardy Boys series have been aimed at the elementary school age kids.

No, I mean wasn't there like a sample pack of the first four chapters of the first four books? But they had changed some of the words before going to press? :-\
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on April 24, 2015, 11:45:31 AM
I've read the sample pack (it was reprinted in the back of the Nancy Drew Files #9 book) but the only difference was that they had taken out the chapter headings, and just condensed the chapters, just like they had done for the first 9 chapters of the Hardy Boys And Tom Swift Ultra Thriller Time Bomb that was printed in The Hardy Boys Casefiles #65 & 66 No Mercy & The Phoenix Equation, where there were paragraphs deleted, but none of the words were different.  It was just a "snapshot" here and there.  And then Evil, Inc. had an even smaller sampling, while the samplings from Cult Of Crime and The Lazarus Plot were the write-up's that appeared as "Frank and Joe's Next Case".

As far as the early Original stories, there was no "Grade Level" used.  They were written with the same level of language as you would get in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn & Tom Sawyer, A Christmas Carol, and were meant for everyone. 
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 24, 2015, 05:25:03 PM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 24, 2015, 11:45:31 AM
I've read the sample pack (it was reprinted in the back of the Nancy Drew Files #9 book) but the only difference was that they had taken out the chapter headings, and just condensed the chapters, just like they had done for the first 9 chapters of the Hardy Boys And Tom Swift Ultra Thriller Time Bomb that was printed in The Hardy Boys Casefiles #65 & 66 No Mercy & The Phoenix Equation, where there were paragraphs deleted, but none of the words were different.  It was just a "snapshot" here and there.  And then Evil, Inc. had an even smaller sampling, while the samplings from Cult Of Crime and The Lazarus Plot were the write-up's that appeared as "Frank and Joe's Next Case".

As far as the early Original stories, there was no "Grade Level" used.  They were written with the same level of language as you would get in The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn & Tom Sawyer, A Christmas Carol, and were meant for everyone.

Okay, I thought they said "What the--" a lot in the first casefile ???
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 24, 2015, 10:05:55 PM
Not that I recall. I have never seen any curse words spelt out in any of the Casefiles, which is telling, considering it was aimed at teenagers, whereas the Undercover Brothers books are aimed at children- and yet they've had curse words spelt out in them, sadly.

And yeah- I had forgotten about the sampler pack- that would be a neat little collectible to get. :)
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 24, 2015, 10:25:54 PM
Guessing the writers back then had more sense to not spell out cuss words. It proves you don't need them to make a good story.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: kosmicdust on April 25, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 24, 2015, 11:45:31 AM
I've read the sample pack (it was reprinted in the back of the Nancy Drew Files #9 book) but the only difference was that they had taken out the chapter headings, and just condensed the chapters.

Actually, there ARE many minor differences between the text in the sampler and what was actually published in the completed books. Here's a comparison of DEAD ON TARGET, with the sampler text in red, and published text in green:

http://postimg.org/image/vu7otv4xh/
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 25, 2015, 05:59:16 PM
Wow- I've never seen the sampler text before- thanks for that sample of it and comparison. :) 8)
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 25, 2015, 07:46:28 PM
Quote from: kosmicdust on April 25, 2015, 10:48:13 AM
Actually, there ARE many minor differences between the text in the sampler and what was actually published in the completed books. Here's a comparison of DEAD ON TARGET, with the sampler text in red, and published text in green:

http://postimg.org/image/vu7otv4xh/ (http://postimg.org/image/vu7otv4xh/)

Wow, that's cool. Is there more? Would love to see if there is, but I couldn't find it there.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on April 25, 2015, 08:08:48 PM
Quote from: Katie on April 24, 2015, 10:25:54 PM
Guessing the writers back then had more sense to not spell out cuss words. It proves you don't need them to make a good story.
Even in the Minstrel books from the same time period, if a character cursed it was written where it was mentioned in the background details, such as in "Terminal Shock" where Joe mentions Frank "swearing" at his computer when Frank gets angry at it, but you don't see an actual curse word.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 25, 2015, 08:30:33 PM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 25, 2015, 08:08:48 PM
Even in the Minstrel books from the same time period, if a character cursed it was written where it was mentioned in the background details, such as in "Terminal Shock" where Joe mentions Frank "swearing" at his computer when Frank gets angry at it, but you don't see an actual curse word.

Yeah, so why the sudden explosion of it with the UB's and now the Adventure series?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on April 26, 2015, 07:25:22 AM
Quote from: Katie on April 25, 2015, 08:30:33 PM
Yeah, so why the sudden explosion of it with the UB's and now the Adventure series?

Break-down of culture.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 26, 2015, 10:23:08 PM
Just to clarify, have there been written out curse words in the "Adventures" books?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: kosmicdust on April 26, 2015, 11:31:42 PM
Quote from: tomswift2002 on April 26, 2015, 07:25:22 AM
Break-down of culture.

Hardly: are you aware of the prevalence of bad language in classic works such as Chaucer? Plus, the widespread use of racial slurs in books from the early to mid twentieth century. Plus, let's be honest: to all intents and purposes 'gosh' and 'darn' are just 'God' and 'damn' spelled in a different way to avoid offense.

Having said all that, I'd prefer the books to avoid curse words and find more inventive and original ways for the characters to express themselves.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on April 28, 2015, 06:07:22 PM
Also, I would think using curse words would be bad marketing for The Hardy Boys- seeing as how the books are aimed at children and most parents don't want their children using such language. I would think Simon & Schuster would hate to be held up as the one responsible for introducing people's kids to bad language- and thus possibly lose sales from some parents.
But as kosmicdust said, there are better ways to express oneself and I'd prefer the books stick with that. I thought that was at least one lesson the Adventures series learned from the Undercover Brothers books.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: Hardy Boys UB Fan on April 28, 2015, 06:13:01 PM
So they swear in the Adventure books too?
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: tomswift2002 on August 19, 2019, 01:34:19 PM
Quote from: MacGyver on May 07, 2013, 07:48:14 AM
I have a feeling this bit about Frank and Joe owning guns was probably only in the original text. Do you recall if it's mentioned in the revised text as well?

I guess this can be answered properly now since the revised text of "The Secret Of The Lost Tunnel" has Joe winning a gun.  So at least Joe owns a gun in the Revised books.
Title: Re: What do you want to know?
Post by: MacGyver on August 20, 2019, 06:41:42 PM
Wow! Thanks for answering my question from 4 years back! :) 8)